Transformers Kingdom Golden Disk Set 1 Revealed to be Puffer and Road Ranger

o.supreme wrote:With ER I believe when the Galactic Odyssey sets were announced we knew there would be 5 (and some if not most of the contents). I know some of the contents of the Golden Disk line have been leaked, but do we know exactly how many sets there will be?

Amazon and Pulse say there are 4 packs, and we had 4 listings (Terrorsaur, "Ranger/Puffer", Jackpot, & Tigatron) but this one was the only one to mention multiple figures in the listing, so if they are all multipacks then we only know at most half of each set's contents.

o.supreme wrote:Although I thought the GO sets were neat, I only ended up getting the the Botropolis one.

As did I, although the line-up we know of for these sounds way more solid to me that the GO sets were (considering half of those were either straight rereleases or new mold versions of characters I just bought in Siege).

Thank you . But "coming soon" is a pretty generic name for the other chapters.

Aren't Shattered Glass Pipes and Huffer colored like these fellas?

At least in the original Shattered Glass universe.

Gearslide wrote:Aren't Shattered Glass Pipes and Huffer colored like these fellas?

At least in the original Shattered Glass universe.

SG Huffer is Movie Armorhide colors.

Road Ranger actually looks really good, I like the black and orange deco and the red windows. I am slightly annoyed that Puffer has been officially revealed before Pipes, and while Puffer is a stupid name, it's cute how they've made a fan nickname official. I won't be buying this set, but I'll definitely be getting the Terrorsaur one when the pre-order goes up. If they are all two-packs it'll be exciting to see what Terrorsaur comes with, and these sets could also potentially be where we get an Earth mode retool for Hound, wild speculation of course but I could definitely see it happening. At this point though I really really really hope that the standard retail version of Tigatron is revealed and goes up for pre-order before the Golden Disk Tigatron...

Sabrblade wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:If we’re already getting Jackpot, meaning that Action Masters are on the table, and we’re getting a repaint and/or retool of Wheeljack, my bet is that we will see Slicer in one of these sets.

Don't forget that SG Wheeljack is also rumored for the SG line, which would already be Slicer colored.

That is true, but Hasbro may choose to go a different way with Shattered Glass Wheeljack. The SG figures released so far tend to eschew the alt modes they had in the Fun Pub stories and toys and instead repaint the G1 character. SG Megatron is the exception so far with his extra kibble and alternate transformation scheme. SG Ratchet’s colors are very different too from that 2-pack last year. Who’s to say that Hasbro’s SG Wheeljack will or won’t be identical to G1 Slicer? Remember, we already have Kingdom Road Rage on the way soon. Will Hasbro skip SG Tracks altogether just because the colors have already been used or will they come up with something different? I figure Hasbro would be happy to give us new SG decos so as not to lock out other potential uses of any given mold.

Sabrblade wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:If we’re already getting Jackpot, meaning that Action Masters are on the table, and we’re getting a repaint and/or retool of Wheeljack, my bet is that we will see Slicer in one of these sets.

Don't forget that SG Wheeljack is also rumored for the SG line, which would already be Slicer colored.

It's possible that the Wheeljack silhouette in the part 2 teaser is just a placeholder so not to give away what the actual figure is. When the Galactic Odyssey sets were being revealed, the unrevealed ones all had the same generic silhouette of Bumblebee, and I think the same thing is happening here.

Road Ranger after randomly being transported to prehistoric Earth:

I like Puffer's lipless faceplate. But knowing the issues with the Huffer mold, I doubt I'll go out of my way for this set. Those hollow legs at the back, and the wafer-thin 'feet', make him a one-time-only purchase in the form of Huffer.

Nice try, Hasbro. But how about making more of the rare figures you DIDN'T produce enough of (like Siege Greenlight, Sky Lynx, etc.) instead of repainting the ones that are still choking shelves?

Nemesis Primal wrote:

o.supreme wrote:With ER I believe when the Galactic Odyssey sets were announced we knew there would be 5 (and some if not most of the contents). I know some of the contents of the Golden Disk line have been leaked, but do we know exactly how many sets there will be?

Amazon and Pulse say there are 4 packs, and we had 4 listings (Terrorsaur, "Ranger/Puffer", Jackpot, & Tigatron) but this one was the only one to mention multiple figures in the listing, so if they are all multipacks then we only know at most half of each set's contents.

Actually, I think this reveal along with the packaging show us the other 3 may end up being single figures, or figures with extras. Look at the photo of the 4 packages making up the golden disc. This set is by far the largest box by area on the side they are using. I would expect the others to be single figures, but possibly with extras.

Bounti76 wrote:Thanks to several Seibertronians for sending in this news, we now have official confirmation and reveals of Kingdom Puffer and Road Ranger!

The description given with these two has some very interesting information. It says the Golden Disk has the power to reveal past, present, and future. In alternate timelines, the quantum surge that turned Beast Wars characters into Transmetals caught up Road Ranger from his timeline, specifically calling him out as a GoBot, and describes Pipes and Huffer being caught up in another wave of quantum energy and arriving on prehistoric Earth fused together as Puffer!















These two are coming in the first of four Golden Disk sets exclusive to Amazon, with the others yet to be revealed. This set can be preordered at Amazon now, but it's currently sold out on Hasbro Pulse, though it may be restocked at a later point, as Red Alert was.

What do you think of this set? Excited to get it? Going for more GoBots to show up in the Transformers line? Hoping for more highly obscure decos to show up as new toys? Let us know what you think by sounding off in the Energon Pub forums.

Interesting though awkward. If he's supposed to be Gobot Road Ranger, then he should have a red cab. I never had G1 Prime asa kid, so I always used Road Ranger as my Prime.

Anybody got any pre-order links for these?

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

o.supreme wrote:With ER I believe when the Galactic Odyssey sets were announced we knew there would be 5 (and some if not most of the contents). I know some of the contents of the Golden Disk line have been leaked, but do we know exactly how many sets there will be?

Amazon and Pulse say there are 4 packs, and we had 4 listings (Terrorsaur, "Ranger/Puffer", Jackpot, & Tigatron) but this one was the only one to mention multiple figures in the listing, so if they are all multipacks then we only know at most half of each set's contents.

Actually, I think this reveal along with the packaging show us the other 3 may end up being single figures, or figures with extras. Look at the photo of the 4 packages making up the golden disc. This set is by far the largest box by area on the side they are using. I would expect the others to be single figures, but possibly with extras.

Unfortunately, looking at them altogether now I fear you may be correct. I've ordered many Selects, and the size of the deluxe box has been the same since the first 2 (Riccochet & red Swoop) in 2019. However with the Cenution Drone last year, and Tricranius this year, we see they can add a whole accessories pack, and still not change the size of the box. The box for deluxes could *technically* be smaller. I would not be surprised if we saw that change occur starting with any future Selects after WFC is done.

But the first box (bottom right) is defintely the biggest. The 2 on the left will be deluxes, and the one on top-right will be the Voyager. Oh well...so much for these all being multi-packs

What if Tigatron is actually our missing Nightprowler? We know from the Amazon AU listing that at some point Nightprowler was meant to be paired with Sideswipe and the price was originally the same as the Mirage and Grimlock until they corrected it meaning it was priced for one Deluxe and one Voyager so it's possible that Nightprowler was meant to be a Voyager Tigatron repaint instead of Deluxe Cheetor. And honestly I'd rather have a new character than an old character in different colors any day. I'm probably wrong, it'll probably be orange, but I really want to be right this time.

Emerje

Wolfman Jake wrote:SG Ratchet’s colors are very different too from that 2-pack last year. Who’s to say that Hasbro’s SG Wheeljack will or won’t be identical to G1 Slicer?

Ratchet was a Selects though, not part of the proper Shattered Glass line. Everyone in the SG line has had accurate color schemes down to Blurr's lightning tats, just on the mold of their G1 self, so I'd be surprised if Wheeljack was the one deviation from that.

Wolfman Jake wrote:Remember, we already have Kingdom Road Rage on the way soon. Will Hasbro skip SG Tracks altogether just because the colors have already been used or will they come up with something different?

I think they're gonna skip SG Tracks because of not only that, but also the fact that SG was basically just a panel-filler goon for Magnus that never did anything notable or memorable. Wheeljack, Blurr, Ratchet, etc. at least got to do stuff within their various appearances that would drive interest in new ones, Tracks seems a bit too unimportant to be considered for this (especially when compared to some of their other remaining options like Grimlock, Rodimus, & Sideswipe).

o.supreme wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:Actually, I think this reveal along with the packaging show us the other 3 may end up being single figures, or figures with extras. Look at the photo of the 4 packages making up the golden disc. This set is by far the largest box by area on the side they are using. I would expect the others to be single figures, but possibly with extras.

Unfortunately, looking at them altogether now I fear you may be correct. I've ordered many Selects, and the size of the deluxe box has been the same since the first 2 (Riccochet & red Swoop) in 2019. However with the Cenution Drone last year, and Tricranius this year, we see they can add a whole accessories pack, and still not change the size of the box. The box for deluxes could *technically* be smaller. I would not be surprised if we saw that change occur starting with any future Selects after WFC is done.

But the first box (bottom right) is defintely the biggest. The 2 on the left will be deluxes, and the one on top-right will be the Voyager. Oh well...so much for these all being multi-packs

It really comes down to which is more accurate, that picture (which could potentially be a placeholder like the Wheeljack pic) or the fact that all of the language in these set descriptions matches how they described the GO sets, which were all multiple figures.

Emerje wrote:What if Tigatron is actually our missing Nightprowler? We know from the Amazon AU listing that at some point Nightprowler was meant to be paired with Sideswipe and the price was originally the same as the Mirage and Grimlock until they corrected it meaning it was priced for one Deluxe and one Voyager so it's possible that Nightprowler was meant to be a Voyager Tigatron repaint instead of Deluxe Cheetor. And honestly I'd rather have a new character than an old character in different colors any day. I'm probably wrong, it'll probably be orange, but I really want to be right this time.

Emerje

As someone who also wants you to be right: why would the listing just call it Tigatron then?

Nemesis Primal wrote:As someone who also wants you to be right: why would the listing just call it Tigatron then?

Name recognition? I mean they couldn't even let Puffer be his own character without a convoluted back story. Plus there's also the negative connotations of "night prowler" which is often synonymous with murder and rape.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:As someone who also wants you to be right: why would the listing just call it Tigatron then?

Name recognition? I mean they couldn't even let Puffer be his own character without a convoluted back story. Plus there's also the negative connotations of "night prowler" which is often synonymous with murder and rape.

Emerje

...but if they could use the Nightprowler name in the listing for the Sideswipe one, shouldn't that mean that connotations aren't an issue? And even though yeah, they came up with the fusion backstory for Puffer, it's not like that's on the box anywhere, you'd only get that info if you read that description. To the uninformed Amazon shopper who sees the listing, it's just a new character named Puffer. Having one of the exclusives be called "Nightprowler Tigatron" or something as it's name in the listing and on the box, on the other hand, would eliminate some of those potential customers who would see the listing and say "Whoever I'm buying this for already has a Tigatron, don't need this", as opposed to if they just named it Nightprowler and then had the product description say he used to be Tigatron or whatever.

In other news, someone figured out where the Wheeljack silhouette is from, and wouldn't you know it it's the same image the Bee and Sideswipe ones were from: So Wheeljack confirmed to be a placeholder, in case that was still in question.

the Gobots rights are fickle but hasbro have like 90%

but they don't have rights for the challenge of the Gobots tv series that's warner brothers and they don't have rights to the original toys they still belong to bandai

which is one the reasons the 2004 gobots are different colours etc

oh the quagmire

Using Nightprowler on a listing so early the figure didn't even show up in the box doesn't necessarily mean they were going to keep the name to the end either, it just means the character was planned at some point. I'm not saying it'll happen, just saying don't be surprised if it does since everyone seems to think Tigatron will either be orange or pure white (or a Ravage repaint, but I don't think he alone fits the price point).

Emerje

Overcracker wrote:Interesting though awkward. If he's supposed to be Gobot Road Ranger, then he should have a red cab. I never had G1 Prime asa kid, so I always used Road Ranger as my Prime.

Anybody got any pre-order links for these?

Bruh

I preordered the pair, they look neat! Road Ranger has sharp colors, and Puffer's story plus an IDW Pipes head just add icing to the cake. Puffer will gladly chill with Tigerhawk!

King Kuuga wrote:

Overcracker wrote:Interesting though awkward. If he's supposed to be Gobot Road Ranger, then he should have a red cab. I never had G1 Prime asa kid, so I always used Road Ranger as my Prime.

Anybody got any pre-order links for these?

Bruh

bruh.jpg

I totally missed that. Thanks.

Pre ordered, but man that fiction is gimmicky. Puffer just feels more like a re color Pipes than a fusion.

Gonna be a troop filler guy

What's a fusion?

o.supreme wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

o.supreme wrote:With ER I believe when the Galactic Odyssey sets were announced we knew there would be 5 (and some if not most of the contents). I know some of the contents of the Golden Disk line have been leaked, but do we know exactly how many sets there will be?

Amazon and Pulse say there are 4 packs, and we had 4 listings (Terrorsaur, "Ranger/Puffer", Jackpot, & Tigatron) but this one was the only one to mention multiple figures in the listing, so if they are all multipacks then we only know at most half of each set's contents.

Actually, I think this reveal along with the packaging show us the other 3 may end up being single figures, or figures with extras. Look at the photo of the 4 packages making up the golden disc. This set is by far the largest box by area on the side they are using. I would expect the others to be single figures, but possibly with extras.

Unfortunately, looking at them altogether now I fear you may be correct. I've ordered many Selects, and the size of the deluxe box has been the same since the first 2 (Ricochet & red Swoop) in 2019. However with the Centurion Drone last year, and Tricranius this year, we see they can add a whole accessories pack, and still not change the size of the box. The box for deluxes could *technically* be smaller. I would not be surprised if we saw that change occur starting with any future Selects after WFC is done.

But the first box (bottom right) is definitely the biggest. The 2 on the left will be deluxes, and the one on top-right will be the Voyager. Oh well...so much for these all being multi-packs

Going by box sizes compared to each other, I'm guessing that numbers two and four might be voyager figures and number three is a deluxe + something else. One voyager would be Tigatron. The other would hopefully be Terrorsaur as some sort of extensive retool of Airazor like Ravage from Cheetor. The deluxe would be Jackpot. The addition with Jackpot could be Sights from Pteraxadon.

It just looks to me that boxes two and four are wider than half the width of box one (two deluxes) which could accommodate a voyager. Box three is wider than boxes two and four but obviously not as wide as box one which is why I think a deluxe with a Battle Master. They'd give the Battle Master display room within the box and not just be crammed into a smaller box as with the extras with Centurion Drone and Tricranius. Which would make the space needed larger than a voyager (boxes 2 and 4) but smaller than two deluxes (box 1).

Or it could also be that two and four are just deluxes, Jackpot and Terrorsaur, with three being Tigatron as O.Supreme said.

Coptur wrote:the Gobots rights are fickle but hasbro have like 90%

but they don't have rights for the challenge of the Gobots tv series that's warner brothers and they don't have rights to the original toys they still belong to bandai

which is one the reasons the 2004 gobots are different colours etc

oh the quagmire

I see this spread like gospel, but as far as I can tell it's untrue. I went on a whole rant on it over at TFW.
https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/ ... t-19574786

WB's own text on the DVDs acknowledges Hasbro's ownership of the characters. As for Bandai's "toy rights," that's not really a thing. Toys aren't protected by copyright but by more limited patent laws, and they expire in only twenty years. I don't doubt that Hasbro and Takara have been conservative in the past, but I think it is fundamentally inaccurate to say that Hasbro does not own sufficient IP to make Go-Bots that look like Go-Bots.

Flashwave wrote:Pre ordered, but man that fiction is gimmicky. Puffer just feels more like a re color Pipes than a fusion.

Gonna be a troop filler guy

william-james88 wrote:What's a fusion?

Puffer is a fusion of Pipes and Huffer. Except here he's functionally just Pipes with a white chest instead of Huffer in Pipes's colors, because Road Ranger already uses the Huffer mold and I guess they didn't want to double dip.

From the Seibertron article:

Bounti76 wrote:The description given with these two has some very interesting information. It [...] describes Pipes and Huffer being caught up in another wave of quantum energy and arriving on prehistoric Earth fused together as Puffer!

From the Amazon product description:

Amazon wrote:CHAPTER 1: THROUGH THE VORTEX: The quantum surge causes a time vortex, intercepting the GoBot Road Ranger and the Autobots Pipes and Huffer, pulling them through time and space. During the wild journey through the vortex, Huffer and Pipes fuse and arrive on prehistoric Earth as Puffer

Overcracker wrote:Interesting though awkward. If he's supposed to be Gobot Road Ranger, then he should have a red cab. I never had G1 Prime asa kid, so I always used Road Ranger as my Prime

It's GoBot Road Ranger in his Transformer disguise body:


Transformers e-Hobby Exclusives Road Ranger Gallery

william-james88 wrote:What's a fusion?

It's a Dragon Ball Z thing. Goku + Vegeta = Gogeta or Vegito depending on method. Goten + Trunks = Gotenks (shown below). Some of the videogames have come up with really crazy combinations.



There's going to be a lot of pictures of Pipes and Huffer doing the fusion dance to become Puffer.

Emerje

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Coptur wrote:the Gobots rights are fickle but hasbro have like 90%

but they don't have rights for the challenge of the Gobots tv series that's warner brothers and they don't have rights to the original toys they still belong to bandai

which is one the reasons the 2004 gobots are different colours etc

oh the quagmire

I see this spread like gospel, but as far as I can tell it's untrue. I went on a whole rant on it over at TFW.
https://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/ ... t-19574786

WB's own text on the DVDs acknowledges Hasbro's ownership of the characters. As for Bandai's "toy rights," that's not really a thing. Toys aren't protected by copyright but by more limited patent laws, and they expire in only twenty years. I don't doubt that Hasbro and Takara have been conservative in the past, but I think it is fundamentally inaccurate to say that Hasbro does not own sufficient IP to make Go-Bots that look like Go-Bots.

Hasbro own the characters but they don't own the likenesses of those characters from CofG remember when jim sorenson used the the image of cy-kill on his q&a FB page he had to stop using the CotG image of Cy-kill for legal reasons and switch to another.
WB archive confirmed they own it (linked to wonder on 2014 below).

The models are owned by bandai same with the deluxe Insecticons which is why Hasbro tread carefully when using them and how they're different enough from their original appearance when in plastic etc.

You have to ask if Hasbro do own everything Gobots then why do they only drop names etc but no actually likeness in over 30years.

See the wondercon panel
https://youtu.be/BsS0Y9RL6Jo

The Warner guy with glasses I asked directly when I was on Twitter and he confirmed that CotG is their's 100% but they wouldn't be able to create anything new using Gobots as that is with Hasbro(currently).

It's not clear cut as we also have ActionToys using the Revenge of Cronos IP for their toyline which is hundred times looks wise closer to the original Gobots than the Hasbro Bugbite or Road Ranger.

Coptur wrote:The models are owned by bandai same with the deluxe Insecticons which is why Hasbro tread carefully when using them and how they're different enough from their original appearance when in plastic etc.

You have to ask if Hasbro do own everything Gobots then why do they only drop names etc but no actually likeness in over 30years.

That's just it, they did use the likenesses:
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Go-Bots_(comic)

From what I've read on the subject--and I've tried very hard to learn about this short of actually going into law--copyrights are much more robust than toy rights. I fundamentally don't understand the argument about Warner's: if what is claimed is true, then why wouldn't Sunbow own Transformers characters instead of Hasbro? Warner's owns the miniseries but not the related IP, which was licensed to them for the show.

I need to see much more convincing arguments then a Facebook header and an individual Twitter reply. I can't tell you why Hasbro or Takara legal makes the decisions that it does, I can only tell you that I see no evidence that there's any real underlying legal principle at work.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Coptur wrote:The models are owned by bandai same with the deluxe Insecticons which is why Hasbro tread carefully when using them and how they're different enough from their original appearance when in plastic etc.

You have to ask if Hasbro do own everything Gobots then why do they only drop names etc but no actually likeness in over 30years.

That's just it, they did use the likenesses:
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Go-Bots_(comic)

From what I've read on the subject--and I've tried very hard to learn about this short of actually going into law--copyrights are much more robust than toy rights. I fundamentally don't understand the argument about Warner's: if what is claimed is true, then why wouldn't Sunbow own Transformers characters instead of Hasbro? Warner's owns the miniseries but not the related IP, which was licensed to them for the show.

I need to see much more convincing arguments then a Facebook header and an individual Twitter reply. I can't tell you why Hasbro or Takara legal makes the decisions that it does, I can only tell you that I see no evidence that there's any real underlying legal principle at work.

Well that could be down to what the contract was with Sunbow/Hasbro being a lot more savvy compared to Hanna Barbara/Tonka.

I know it's on the wiki which isn't set in stone but it explains the quagmire quite well tbh.


https://tfwiki.net/wiki/GoBots
Modern era section
Also the JS info link
https://web.archive.org/web/20200808175 ... try3159052

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Coptur wrote:The models are owned by bandai same with the deluxe Insecticons which is why Hasbro tread carefully when using them and how they're different enough from their original appearance when in plastic etc.

You have to ask if Hasbro do own everything Gobots then why do they only drop names etc but no actually likeness in over 30years.

That's just it, they did use the likenesses:
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Go-Bots_(comic)

From what I've read on the subject--and I've tried very hard to learn about this short of actually going into law--copyrights are much more robust than toy rights. I fundamentally don't understand the argument about Warner's: if what is claimed is true, then why wouldn't Sunbow own Transformers characters instead of Hasbro? Warner's owns the miniseries but not the related IP, which was licensed to them for the show.

I need to see much more convincing arguments then a Facebook header and an individual Twitter reply. I can't tell you why Hasbro or Takara legal makes the decisions that it does, I can only tell you that I see no evidence that there's any real underlying legal principle at work.

Well that could be down to what the contract was with Sunbow/Hasbro being a lot more savvy compared to Hanna Barbara/Tonka.

I know it's on the wiki which isn't set in stone but it explains the quagmire quite well tbh.


https://tfwiki.net/wiki/GoBots
Modern era section
Also the JS info link
https://web.archive.org/web/20200808175 ... try3159052

It seems any reluctant use of the Gobots appears to be related to original bandai designs but in truth nobody truly knows, which is a shame as I love the Gobots

Coptur wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Coptur wrote:The models are owned by bandai same with the deluxe Insecticons which is why Hasbro tread carefully when using them and how they're different enough from their original appearance when in plastic etc.

You have to ask if Hasbro do own everything Gobots then why do they only drop names etc but no actually likeness in over 30years.

That's just it, they did use the likenesses:
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Go-Bots_(comic)

From what I've read on the subject--and I've tried very hard to learn about this short of actually going into law--copyrights are much more robust than toy rights. I fundamentally don't understand the argument about Warner's: if what is claimed is true, then why wouldn't Sunbow own Transformers characters instead of Hasbro? Warner's owns the miniseries but not the related IP, which was licensed to them for the show.

I need to see much more convincing arguments then a Facebook header and an individual Twitter reply. I can't tell you why Hasbro or Takara legal makes the decisions that it does, I can only tell you that I see no evidence that there's any real underlying legal principle at work.

Well that could be down to what the contract was with Sunbow/Hasbro being a lot more savvy compared to Hanna Barbara/Tonka.

I know it's on the wiki which isn't set in stone but it explains the quagmire quite well tbh.


https://tfwiki.net/wiki/GoBots
Modern era section
Also the JS info link
https://web.archive.org/web/20200808175 ... try3159052

If you read Sorensen's reply in the thread, he basically rejects the arguments that you make. I'm making the same claims over at TFW: it's not that Hasbro doesn't own the rights, it's that they don't want to build up an IP that they basically share with Bandai.

At any rate, I'm genuinely grateful that you tracked down this thread, it's very helpful for me.

I believe that, although they own the IP, Hasbro can't make TOYS that are identical to the original Bandai versions, as they don't own the rights to them. Takara, in Japan, can't have anything to do with them, as it's Hasbro that owns the rights to everything but the original molds outside Japan.

primalxconvoy wrote:I believe that, although they own the IP, Hasbro can't make TOYS that are identical to the original Bandai versions, as they don't own the rights to them. Takara, in Japan, can't have anything to do with them, as it's Hasbro that owns the rights to everything but the original molds outside Japan.

This is false. Toy likenesses aren't protected IP. Toys are generally governed by patents, which are limited, and expire after twenty years.

primalxconvoy wrote:I believe that, although they own the IP, Hasbro can't make TOYS that are identical to the original Bandai versions, as they don't own the rights to them. Takara, in Japan, can't have anything to do with them, as it's Hasbro that owns the rights to everything but the original molds outside Japan.

Exactly and agreed.

It's complicated and not black and white.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:I believe that, although they own the IP, Hasbro can't make TOYS that are identical to the original Bandai versions, as they don't own the rights to them. Takara, in Japan, can't have anything to do with them, as it's Hasbro that owns the rights to everything but the original molds outside Japan.

This is false. Toy likenesses aren't protected IP. Toys are generally governed by patents, which are limited, and expire after twenty years.

That's not completely true. Although in the case of most TF toys, it's the insignia, character names, etc that are legally protected (via patents, copyrights, etc), making full copies of products can be illegal. Usually, it's up to the IP holder to make a claim, which is why so many knockoff or "3P" products are "legal". However, if Bandai wanted to take action against Hasbro for, say, making near identical (Gobots) products, then they might have a case.

The difficulties with IP are linked to the issues you have stated, but they're also linked to others and aren't so black and white.

Similar issues have arisen regarding "Robotech" and other IP from Japan too, and these have occurred after 20 years of expiry.

If you're using "identical" narrowly to refer to counterfeiting, that's fundamentally different. But honestly, even the original designs could probably be remade, because the patents are expired, but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

In context, though, I'm talking about reengineered Generations-style updates. There are no toy rights restrictions to something like that.

AcademyofDrX wrote:If you're using "identical" narrowly to refer to counterfeiting, that's fundamentally different. But honestly, even the original designs could probably be remade, because the patents are expired, but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

In context, though, I'm talking about reengineered Generations-style updates. There are no toy rights restrictions to something like that.

Like I've said, there's no clear answer for this. It's why Apple and Samsung have gone to court over reverse engineering, and many other similar lawsuits. I daresay Hasbro doesn't want to suffer any potentially legal or financial problems linked to it.

"The rights are complicated and Hasbro doesn't want a lawsuit" is fair and reasonable speculation. "Bandai owns the likenesses of the toys" is a false statement. Whether it's for business strategic reasons, conservative legal opinions, or something else, we will almost certainly never see a major GoBots toyline.

AcademyofDrX wrote:"The rights are complicated and Hasbro doesn't want a lawsuit" is fair and reasonable speculation. "Bandai owns the likenesses of the toys" is a false statement. Whether it's for business strategic reasons, conservative legal opinions, or something else, we will almost certainly never see a major GoBots toyline.

Well that much is true but what is also true that Hastak appear to tread incredibly carefully with any Gobot use that could be to near to the Bandai eye of Sauron.

I need to clarify: I meant to say "Bandai does not EXCLUSIVELY own the toy likeness." They do own the characters and likenesses under the Machine Robo brand, which does not limit Hasbro's rights under GoBots.

I'm inclined to believe Sorensen in that thread where he says it's less about legal exposure than building up a brand which Bandai could exploit, but either way, they're steering clear.

Grahf_ wrote:

o.supreme wrote:

TF-fan kev777 wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:

o.supreme wrote:With ER I believe when the Galactic Odyssey sets were announced we knew there would be 5 (and some if not most of the contents). I know some of the contents of the Golden Disk line have been leaked, but do we know exactly how many sets there will be?

Amazon and Pulse say there are 4 packs, and we had 4 listings (Terrorsaur, "Ranger/Puffer", Jackpot, & Tigatron) but this one was the only one to mention multiple figures in the listing, so if they are all multipacks then we only know at most half of each set's contents.

Actually, I think this reveal along with the packaging show us the other 3 may end up being single figures, or figures with extras. Look at the photo of the 4 packages making up the golden disc. This set is by far the largest box by area on the side they are using. I would expect the others to be single figures, but possibly with extras.

Unfortunately, looking at them altogether now I fear you may be correct. I've ordered many Selects, and the size of the deluxe box has been the same since the first 2 (Ricochet & red Swoop) in 2019. However with the Centurion Drone last year, and Tricranius this year, we see they can add a whole accessories pack, and still not change the size of the box. The box for deluxes could *technically* be smaller. I would not be surprised if we saw that change occur starting with any future Selects after WFC is done.

But the first box (bottom right) is definitely the biggest. The 2 on the left will be deluxes, and the one on top-right will be the Voyager. Oh well...so much for these all being multi-packs

Going by box sizes compared to each other, I'm guessing that numbers two and four might be voyager figures and number three is a deluxe + something else. One voyager would be Tigatron. The other would hopefully be Terrorsaur as some sort of extensive retool of Airazor like Ravage from Cheetor. The deluxe would be Jackpot. The addition with Jackpot could be Sights from Pteraxadon.

It just looks to me that boxes two and four are wider than half the width of box one (two deluxes) which could accommodate a voyager. Box three is wider than boxes two and four but obviously not as wide as box one which is why I think a deluxe with a Battle Master. They'd give the Battle Master display room within the box and not just be crammed into a smaller box as with the extras with Centurion Drone and Tricranius. Which would make the space needed larger than a voyager (boxes 2 and 4) but smaller than two deluxes (box 1).

Or it could also be that two and four are just deluxes, Jackpot and Terrorsaur, with three being Tigatron as O.Supreme said.

I'm pretty sure they will end up being some type of set. I just compared the GO Paradon Medics box to other selects and Kingdom boxes for deluxes, and the individual deluxe boxes are too small to be either of the other 3 sets. I can't see Terrorsaur being a voyager retool of a deluxe figure, that just doesn't make sense. Possible a new mold based on the same engineering like Tigratron compared to Cheetor, but I doubt they would actually share any parts as the scale would be off.

I was able to find a site with screenshots of the original Amazon AU Listings and that is where things get weird.

Terrorsaur and Ranger/Puffer were not listed with a price. Golden Voyager Tigratron was listed at $38.96AU while the set with Jackpot was listed at $58.09AU. For comparison, Kingdom deluxes are listed at $34.78AU. So Tigratron says he is a voyager but is barely priced higher than a deluxe? Meanwhile the Jackpot set is over twice a single deluxe.

AcademyofDrX wrote:"The rights are complicated and Hasbro doesn't want a lawsuit" is fair and reasonable speculation. "Bandai owns the likenesses of the toys" is a false statement. Whether it's for business strategic reasons, conservative legal opinions, or something else, we will almost certainly never see a major GoBots toyline.

Again, it's not that simple. Bandai does own the rights to the original Machine Robo toys, which were sold in the US, complete with their trademark stamps on those figures. Hasbro cannot recreate exact copies of those toys without expecting legal action from Bandai. I would also postulate that Hasbro didn't want to promote Bandai's brand in the Japan via selling similar products in the US (although that hasn't stopped them selling Jetfire toys).

primalxconvoy wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:If you're using "identical" narrowly to refer to counterfeiting, that's fundamentally different. But honestly, even the original designs could probably be remade, because the patents are expired, but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

In context, though, I'm talking about reengineered Generations-style updates. There are no toy rights restrictions to something like that.

Like I've said, there's no clear answer for this. It's why Apple and Samsung have gone to court over reverse engineering, and many other similar lawsuits. I daresay Hasbro doesn't want to suffer any potentially legal or financial problems linked to it.

Not too long ago, Bandai released new neo-generations style Machine Robo toys, so there's definitely something to the 'can't make toys in the likeness of the Bandai figures' thing.

sol magnus wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:If you're using "identical" narrowly to refer to counterfeiting, that's fundamentally different. But honestly, even the original designs could probably be remade, because the patents are expired, but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

In context, though, I'm talking about reengineered Generations-style updates. There are no toy rights restrictions to something like that.

Like I've said, there's no clear answer for this. It's why Apple and Samsung have gone to court over reverse engineering, and many other similar lawsuits. I daresay Hasbro doesn't want to suffer any potentially legal or financial problems linked to it.

Not too long ago, Bandai released new neo-generations style Machine Robo toys, so there's definitely something to the 'can't make toys in the likeness of the Bandai figures' thing.

No, there isn't. Just because Action Toys can make Machine Robo toys under license from Bandai doesn't mean that Hasbro can't make Go-Bots. There are two different sets of IP. If Hasbro's IP didn't include the likenesses, and Bandai's rights work the way people claim here, then the IDW comics series would have infringed on Bandai's rights, but that's not how any of this works.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:If you're using "identical" narrowly to refer to counterfeiting, that's fundamentally different. But honestly, even the original designs could probably be remade, because the patents are expired, but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

In context, though, I'm talking about reengineered Generations-style updates. There are no toy rights restrictions to something like that.

Like I've said, there's no clear answer for this. It's why Apple and Samsung have gone to court over reverse engineering, and many other similar lawsuits. I daresay Hasbro doesn't want to suffer any potentially legal or financial problems linked to it.

Not too long ago, Bandai released new neo-generations style Machine Robo toys, so there's definitely something to the 'can't make toys in the likeness of the Bandai figures' thing.

No, there isn't. Just because Action Toys can make Machine Robo toys under license from Bandai doesn't mean that Hasbro can't make Go-Bots. There are two different sets of IP. If Hasbro's IP didn't include the likenesses, and Bandai's rights work the way people claim here, then the IDW comics series would have infringed on Bandai's rights, but that's not how any of this works.

You're saying 'that's not how any of this works,' but evidently it's not been working how you think it does. Clearly, when Hasbro uses the "Go-Bots" characters they change them into "Transformers" toys for a reason. Something is being sidestepped, and it appears to be reference to the original toy from here. Otherwise, why NOT make Leader-1 as we know him? Why NOT make Turbo? Why NOT make Scooter (okay, I can think of a few reason why to not make Scooter), etc.?

Now, it COULD be they just don't want to compete with their own brand, but honestly, Go-Bots was never any competition to begin with, so I reject that as a reason.

sol magnus wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:If you're using "identical" narrowly to refer to counterfeiting, that's fundamentally different. But honestly, even the original designs could probably be remade, because the patents are expired, but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

In context, though, I'm talking about reengineered Generations-style updates. There are no toy rights restrictions to something like that.

Like I've said, there's no clear answer for this. It's why Apple and Samsung have gone to court over reverse engineering, and many other similar lawsuits. I daresay Hasbro doesn't want to suffer any potentially legal or financial problems linked to it.

Not too long ago, Bandai released new neo-generations style Machine Robo toys, so there's definitely something to the 'can't make toys in the likeness of the Bandai figures' thing.

No, there isn't. Just because Action Toys can make Machine Robo toys under license from Bandai doesn't mean that Hasbro can't make Go-Bots. There are two different sets of IP. If Hasbro's IP didn't include the likenesses, and Bandai's rights work the way people claim here, then the IDW comics series would have infringed on Bandai's rights, but that's not how any of this works.

You're saying 'that's not how any of this works,' but evidently it's not been working how you think it does. Clearly, when Hasbro uses the "Go-Bots" characters they change them into "Transformers" toys for a reason. Something is being sidestepped, and it appears to be reference to the original toy from here. Otherwise, why NOT make Leader-1 as we know him? Why NOT make Turbo? Why NOT make Scooter (okay, I can think of a few reason why to not make Scooter), etc.?

Now, it COULD be they just don't want to compete with their own brand, but honestly, Go-Bots was never any competition to begin with, so I reject that as a reason.

It's most likely a business reason and not a legal reason. Here's a link to a forum discussion on this same topic shared earlier in the thread today by user Coptur:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200808175 ... try3159052

Here's a key comment from Jim Sorensen:
"At least, they wouldn't use anything too close to any of the actual GoBots characters that were based on a Bandai license, because again, they'd not want to boost Bandai's MachineRobo line. A Cy-Kill toy that looks like Cy-Kill is probably off the table forever (pending some fortuitous merger). On the other hand, a Cy-Kill with a different color scheme and silhouette would be entirely possible. See, in fact, the actual Cop-Tur and Bug Bite toys produced by Hasbro licensee Fun Publications. A non-toy Cy-Kill would STILL almost certainly need to be heavily redesigned, not because of a potential lawsuit, but because of the free advertising issue."

If Hasbro launches a Go-Bots subline with the original designs, which I contend is completely in their rights, Bandai could make their Machine Robo line complimentary or in competition. Hasbro has no inclination to build up a secondary IP that someone else could make toys of.

Why change the colors and designs? To keep the characters active independent of what Bandai has. Think of it this way: which is more valuable to Hasbro, a yellow beetle named Bug Bite with a funny head or a white mercenary with the same name?

And of course Sorensen was wrong about the non-toy visual representation, as IDW's Go-Bots did in fact feature a Cy-kill who was visually identical to the classic version.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:

sol magnus wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:If you're using "identical" narrowly to refer to counterfeiting, that's fundamentally different. But honestly, even the original designs could probably be remade, because the patents are expired, but I don't know why anyone would want to do that.

In context, though, I'm talking about reengineered Generations-style updates. There are no toy rights restrictions to something like that.

Like I've said, there's no clear answer for this. It's why Apple and Samsung have gone to court over reverse engineering, and many other similar lawsuits. I daresay Hasbro doesn't want to suffer any potentially legal or financial problems linked to it.

Not too long ago, Bandai released new neo-generations style Machine Robo toys, so there's definitely something to the 'can't make toys in the likeness of the Bandai figures' thing.

No, there isn't. Just because Action Toys can make Machine Robo toys under license from Bandai doesn't mean that Hasbro can't make Go-Bots. There are two different sets of IP. If Hasbro's IP didn't include the likenesses, and Bandai's rights work the way people claim here, then the IDW comics series would have infringed on Bandai's rights, but that's not how any of this works.

You're saying 'that's not how any of this works,' but evidently it's not been working how you think it does. Clearly, when Hasbro uses the "Go-Bots" characters they change them into "Transformers" toys for a reason. Something is being sidestepped, and it appears to be reference to the original toy from here. Otherwise, why NOT make Leader-1 as we know him? Why NOT make Turbo? Why NOT make Scooter (okay, I can think of a few reason why to not make Scooter), etc.?

Now, it COULD be they just don't want to compete with their own brand, but honestly, Go-Bots was never any competition to begin with, so I reject that as a reason.

It's most likely a business reason and not a legal reason. Here's a link to a forum discussion on this same topic shared earlier in the thread today by user Coptur:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200808175 ... try3159052

Here's a key comment from Jim Sorensen:
"At least, they wouldn't use anything too close to any of the actual GoBots characters that were based on a Bandai license, because again, they'd not want to boost Bandai's MachineRobo line. A Cy-Kill toy that looks like Cy-Kill is probably off the table forever (pending some fortuitous merger). On the other hand, a Cy-Kill with a different color scheme and silhouette would be entirely possible. See, in fact, the actual Cop-Tur and Bug Bite toys produced by Hasbro licensee Fun Publications. A non-toy Cy-Kill would STILL almost certainly need to be heavily redesigned, not because of a potential lawsuit, but because of the free advertising issue."

If Hasbro launches a Go-Bots subline with the original designs, which I contend is completely in their rights, Bandai could make their Machine Robo line complimentary or in competition. Hasbro has no inclination to build up a secondary IP that someone else could make toys of.

Why change the colors and designs? To keep the characters active independent of what Bandai has. Think of it this way: which is more valuable to Hasbro, a yellow beetle named Bug Bite with a funny head or a white mercenary with the same name?

Okay, so we're on the same page. I said there's something to it. I did use the word 'can't', which I should have said 'won't.'

AcademyofDrX wrote:And of course Sorensen was wrong about the non-toy visual representation, as IDW's Go-Bots did in fact feature a Cy-kill who was visually identical to the classic version.

In regards to the Go-Bots comic book, that's slightly different IP. The toys are the toys. The stylized images that represent the characters in print are just that - no different than the Diaclone/Transformers toy/character split except in that instance Hasbro/Takara share ownership of all it.